I’m a man with a hundred questions and I’m never satisfied with canned answers that are supposed to silence the foolish. When I converted to evangelical Christianism back in 1994, I was so certain that God himself has called me into his grace and so I accepted his offer to make him my lord and savior. For years, I happily - without any hesitation whatsoever - spent my life in service to God. I studied the bible, listened to Christian leaders and politely asked questions about certain sections of the bible that either I couldn’t understand or that appears to be in conflict with the supposed nature of God. Answers poured in and slowly I realized one thing.
One of the questions that I asked God and fellow Christians was about the genocide committed by the Israelites in the Old Testament wherein Israeli soldiers were commanded by God to slaughter nations - men, women and CHILDREN. Indeed, this has been an age-old question to which no satisfactory answer (at least one that would appease the way we modern humans think) was given. There is however one ultimate answer that kind of ends the discussion, not because it is satisfactory but merely because the discussion becomes pointless after this answer is given and it’s called GOD’s PREROGATIVE.
WordNet defines prerogative as a right reserved exclusively by a particular person or group - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
If you understand what the above definition means (which I believe you do) then you would certainly acknowledge my sentiment in saying that any discussion after such an answer would be pointless simply because it puts God above any law - even those that he himself gave. One Christian once told me that “after all, these laws were given to man for man to obey and not to God for God to obey” and another one even said, “So what? He is God, he can do whatever he pleases.”
This brings me to my next point. Would you obey a God who doesn’t practice what he preach? Would you follow a God who gave Moses the Ten Commandments saying “Thou shalt not kill” and eventually told the same Moses to slaughter the Canaanites - men, women and children? In fact, even the cattle were to be killed. Would you give your life to a “loving God” but cannot at least spare the children so they can be taught the ways of God?
No, I’m not trying to disprove his existence here (that’ll be something for some other time) but merely trying to offer you a thought - one that has bothered me for quite some time already - to obey a God who kills the innocent. I can easily tolerate the idea of killing the men and women because they would most probably have lived “evil lives” (evil relative to the God of Jews and Christians). I cannot however swallow the thought of killing children whom have not even made a decision on whether or not they would follow the footsteps of their parents. But well, it’s God’s prerogative to do so. After all, you might say, he gives life and he has the right to take it back but that my friend to me is a very weak answer. Why give someone a gift if you’d just HARSHLY take it back?
At this point in my life, all I can say is that I won’t serve such a God. Perhaps, God owes us (or maybe just me) an explanation about this matter. Am I being arrogant here? Why would I, a mere human, would demand an explanation from God? I don’t think it’s arrogance nor is it demanding to ask God a question about something that I don’t fully understand. If he is indeed God then he can easily give us the right answer. Wouldn’t you want an explanation too? After all, what’s wrong with asking? In fact God gave us the prerogative to ask and to seek to which he answered that we shall receive and find. If he can use his prerogative, then I’m simply using mine.
Cheers!
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 am
Hi Mike, I refer to “Do to Others What You Would Have Them Do to You”
Every verse in the Bible has its own meaning according to the context it’s talking about, so we can’t just match one verse to the other by ignoring the situation behind it.
Matthew 7:12 is obviously has no relation to 1 Chronicles 21. Matthew 7:12 talks about do to others as what we expect others do to us, for example if we expect other people treat us nicely so we have to treat others nicely too.
While 1 Chron 21 talks about David’s sin because he didn’t think God’s might helped him winning the battle against enemies as he felt Israelites did it by their own power and ordered census be made to prove it.
Whether you believe God or not - every single blessing comes from God.
Do you know bless or curse is descended from top to the bottom, from one generation to the next generation ?
Whether you like it or not, want it or not - you actually inherit the bless (and the curse) from your previous generation (you can though break it if you want).
The part in the old testament where Yahweh ordered the Israelites to slaughter an entire country - men, women and children (because those people hindered them from worshipping God), represent that God doesn’t want His people to compromise with sin, He wants full repent not half repent, because a little sin left out will be a pest which then one day can destroy His people.
It is just like if you want to totally get rid of mosquitoes or flies from your house - you can’t just simply spray pesticides around the room, but you need to spray the gutter as well to exterminate the whole infestation from the crop.
If we read Bible in a choppy manner and without asking His help, then we won’t get the message God tried to tell us.
You once accepted Him and happily served Him. But it seems that you did it for FUN (typical teenagers who like follow the flow /trend) and FAIL knowing Him personally, so I’m not surprised if you back off.
If you are a man with a hundred question but have no hunger to find the truth - don’t expect to find the answer.
I used to hate Christian and thought they are crazy!! Until He spoke to me and experienced lots of miracles - then I realized that there is God, the creator of Heaven and earth, the Alpha and Omega, the Giver of life - our breath of life.
I wonder if you know that God is alive and therefore can speak!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:42 am
I honestly don’t get your point about Matthew 7:12 and 1Chronicles 21. Nonetheless, I did make a post about “Do to Others What You Would Have Them Do to You” at my other blog which you can find here
As for David’s sin, my question is this: Why kill the Israelites if it was David who sinned? Why not kill David instead? Just sounds absurd and eerily similar to the injustice that we see in our courts where the innocent is punished and the guilty set free.
You also said, “Whether you believe God or not - every single blessing comes from God.” I find it funny that you always attribute blessings to God and yet forget to attribute the problems of the world to him. If he’s in control of everything then I’m sure he’s also in control of all the disasters in the world.
As for inheriting blessings and curses, I find it absurd that an innocent child should inherit the sins of his or her ancestors. I find it equally absurd that a bastard should inherit the blessings of his ancestors. This just proves that God is unjust. Why should he punish me for the sins of my fathers?
Next, your explanation of the slaughter is just plain ridiculous. Mosquitoes are not the same as humans. We are more intelligent than that. And if you think that slaughtering an entire country is similar to killing all the mosquitoes in your house then I tell you that you need to see a psychiatrist. Sounds like you’re bloodthirsty.
And oh, mosquitoes don’t slaughter other mosquitoes but humans do, sometimes with the blessings of God as well.
Did I read the Bible in a choppy manner? By all means no! How dare you assume that I’ve read like most Christians do? I’ve read it completely and fully and seriously and even with prayers and yet I still find it totally stupid. I might have even read the bible more than you did, so please….
Did I accept Jesus and serve him just for fun? No! Again, how dare you judge me by what you see on others. Call me a typical teenager? You should know better. And no, I didn’t back off just like that. I tried to defend my faith and tried to stay as hard as I can. I cried in my prayers and fasted and asked for help but apparently, God’s grip is not strong enough or maybe he ain’t just listening.
Do I have a hundred questions? Yes. Do I have the hunger to find the truth? Definitely! I think you Christians are the ones who are not really hungry for the truth. You’re all contented with what your bible and your church has to say. You base your truth on your feelings and not on facts. You base things on faith - defined by your bible as things that cannot be seen - and ignore the things that are blatantly on your face. You call anything that is against you as the work of the devil. LOL, you make me laugh.
You thought Christians are crazy? Well, maybe not all. But you heard him speak to you??? Now that’s crazy!
Lastly, how can God be alive if he doesn’t exist?
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 am
God of War ? warriors have different ethics and code. if you seen the 75% and 25% reality, Bae Yong Joon’s, The Legend. He wants to make peace with the tribe Kitad but eventually killed them.
Well how about this one, kill everyone except those virgins.
“Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
Numbers 31.17,18
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:43 am
Quick question, what’s with all the virgins? How come gods (not just Yahweh) always want virgins? Or is it really god who commanded it or just Moses who just wants to please the warriors?
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:38 am
“The part in the old testament where Yahweh ordered the Israelites to slaughter an entire country - men, women and children (because those people hindered them from worshipping God), represent that God doesn’t want His people to compromise with sin, He wants full repent not half repent, because a little sin left out will be a pest which then one day can destroy His people.
It is just like if you want to totally get rid of mosquitoes or flies from your house - you can’t just simply spray pesticides around the room, but you need to spray the gutter as well to exterminate the whole infestation from the crop.
If we read Bible in a choppy manner and without asking His help, then we won’t get the message God tried to tell us.”
I don’t need HIISSSS bloody help. Killing children, women is just sick! We’re not talking of mosquitos and roaches here.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Hi guys. Since we’re all taking ourselves too seriously here, here goes my two-centavo fishwap sentiments on the discussion.
What’s this fixation we have for sin? And forgiveness?I remember Nietzche ” (F)or the sake of being born, I must seek forgiveness”? For the sins of ancestors that we hardly know? That’s so vindictive, don’t you agree?
And Jesus Christ coming down to earth so his Dad could kill him to save us from ourselves? Is that supposed to impress us or what? God could have simply said “I forgive you.” Bigat no? Hindi nga kapanipaniwala eh, but faith is supposed to defy logic and reason. If one uses logic and reason (I’m not saying one shouldn’t), one won’t be able to believe this “Absolute Truth” as claimed by Christianity. Oh by the way there may be more than a thousand beliefs that claim they have the “Absolute Truth.” We will not get along, because mankind loves to disagree. Some peaceful, some bloody…
In the Bible, God is a selfish, self-serving, vindictive, dysfunctional, slavery-loving, narscissitic, genocidal being. And someone says that we are “wonderfully made in His own Image” Yippee!!!
Somebody has to answer the arguments that “all religions are man-made institutions created to control the way man thinks”, and that “the bible is not the divinely inspired word of God, nor did God write it down. men wrote them down. And they had an agenda for it.”
I say God is narscissistic because four out of the ten commandments are about him. If that’s not narscissistic then I don’t know what is.
Btw He’s insecure too. Because He doesn’t want other gods before him.
So there’s my two cents. Love it or hate it. But don’t hate me for expressing myself. By the way, I have a new delusion. Its called the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I already gave up believing in the Church of the Flying Sphagetti Monster coz it keeps on schisming on me.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:52 am
I forgot “Bloodthirsty” and “Parricidal” and “Sexually Immoral”. Reading the Bible is interesting if one tries to understand it. Not saying that I do. But The Questions!They’re Legion!
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Don’t you guys get it yet? The JUDEO-CHRISTIAN GOD EXISTS! Yes He does in all His Manliness… but only in the heads of those who wants to believe He exists. Outside of their heads God is nowhere to be found.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:41 am
Mike,
The most important thing in Christian life is having communion with God - not just pray and fast, and to do this we must humble our heart first, then when we read the Bible we not just read it literally but will get the rhema of it, which is the message God wants to tell, and it is very deep and wide beyond explanation, and He reveals alot of secret of life to people who wants to pay the price for having communion with Him.
I once couldn’t understand Bible and hated it alot, I went to various churches and asked to many pastors and I was fully dissatisfied with them all. In my desperation and terribly curious, I determined to seek and cry out deeply who are you God ??!!, and I never forget how Jesus revealed that He is the Way the Truth and the Life, and I was just stunned, openned my eyes observing is that You Lord !!! From that on - anytime I read the Bible it became more sense. He told me when He is happy, when He is angry, and told me when He grieve over my sin, even my future sin !!!
I remember one night when I finished crying - repenting on one particular bad addiction - but He still grieved badly over it, and I asked Him why are You still sad Lord?, and I never forget how He told me softly that I would do it again soon, and I said NNOOOOO Lord, I won’t !!!!, then He just silent. One week past, I forgot what I repented, I did my bad addiction again, that night on my prayer when I cried - He just said tenderly “I’ve already told you”, when I heard that I just wept, and wept. I was utterly amazed that He even knew what I would be doing in the future. And there are many more experiences walking with Him, that’s why I know precisely that He is alive, real, can feel and can speak!!
I found that God created each of us unique, He wants to deal with each of us independently, that’s why How He reveals the Truth to each of us is very unique too.
He wants us to take up our cross and walk with Him, or else we will stumble and fail.
I was born from a non-Christian family and my parents used to mark around with something like witchcraft. Maybe because the way I grew up so I have no problem in believing the unseen, and I know exactly the power of unseen can control the seen, therefore what we can see is not eternal - but what we can not see is eternal.
I’m here not to argue with you Mike, I just want to share my personal experience.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Hi! Thanks for posting another comment and no, I’m not arguing with you either. I’d rather call what we’re having here as a healthy discussion.
Allow me to dissect the first paragraph of your reply above:
“The most important thing in Christian life is having communion with God - not just pray and fast,”
- but isn’t praying and fasting the only way to commune with God? I’m sure I was trying to commune with him back then.
—
“and to do this we must humble our heart first, then when we read the Bible we not just read it literally but will get the rhema of it, which is the message God wants to tell,”
- i think the so-called rhema is nothing more than the subconscious speaking to you. in other words, it’s also you and not God
—
“and it is very deep and wide beyond explanation, and He reveals alot of secret of life to people who wants to pay the price for having communion with Him.”
- geez, if i’ll pay just to commune with god then i’d rather commune with my dog who would gladly play with me and stay with me and not ask me for a price. i mean, if god really wants people to commune with him then why ask them to “pay the price”?
—
now as for your experience, i think of it as just that - an experience. we have lots of experiences in our lives everyday and we humans tend to come up with some sort of an interpretation. say for example, if you skipped one bus and took the next one then eventually realized that the first bus had a serious accident, you - in your christian belief - would call it a miracle and will interpret it as god saving you from the accident. that however would be self-centered. why should god save you - just one person - and leave the rest of the passengers to suffer in the accident?
regarding your previous addiction, you mentioned that god told you that you will do it again. i think it’s yourself telling you to do it again. a way of justifying ones desires without having to suffer from guilt. that’s typical to us humans.
that said, i don’t think your personal experience or any other christian’s personal experience can prove the existence of some god because it’s just that - a personal experience.
and oh by the way, this morning i had a talk with the three little pigs. they told me not to eat pork anymore.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Hey you don’t ‘pay a price’ to commune with the invisible pink unicorn either. That’s what She told me. So I hold on to her promises too.
p.s. I thought it was a gift? So why pay a price?
July 4th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Only by his grace,
Wow you actually compared humans to mosquito infestations? No wonder you don’t see anything wrong with exterminating all people including children. Not to mention almost the entire living planet when he flooded the whole earth.
You think passing on the curse or blessing to offspring is ok? So if your dad is convicted of murder, you and your children and their children should be dragged off into prison with him too huh? No wonder you have no problem with the concept of original sin.
And THAT is a prime example of the uncritical and unskeptical thinking that religion wants us to have.
No, even if your god is real (which he most likely isn’t), I will NEVER worship him simply because he is a cruel, misogynistic, petty, violent, narcissistic, unjust, and malicious despot who does not give a crap about his subjects unless they kowtow and glorify him every second of the day.
Unlike you, I never used to hate christians (and I still don’t), and most of them aren’t crazy (but some them definitely are). The way you spout nonsense makes me think you’re one of the latter.
You might say that we’re committing blasphemy and what we’re saying is offensive to you. But look at it this way. Everytime you proselytize and say that only true christians are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell, you’re being offensive. Everytime you claim that some magical being in the sky is talking to you and favoring you over non-christians, you’re being offensive. Everytime you claim moral superiority based on values fabricated by your religion, you’re being offensive. And everytime you rationalize away the injustices done by your peers as “god’s will”, you’re being offensive.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
you know “Only By Grace”, what you experienced here also applies to all people whether they are are believers or atheists. It is a matter of self discipline and determination, remember new year’s resolution? when you want to do something new but wasn’t able to accomplish that throughout the year? I believe 98% of people fail with their promises to themselves. It’s not God telling you will go back to your old ways, it just yourself, and it is you yourself that keep your promise, not God giving you strength. Wake up “Only By Grace”.
I remember one night when I finished crying - repenting on one particular bad addiction - but He still grieved badly over it, and I asked Him why are You still sad Lord?, and I never forget how He told me softly that I would do it again soon, and I said NNOOOOO Lord, I won’t !!!!, then He just silent. One week past, I forgot what I repented, I did my bad addiction again, that night on my prayer when I cried - He just said tenderly “I’ve already told you”, when I heard that I just wept, and wept. I was utterly amazed that He even knew what I would be doing in the future. And there are many more experiences walking with Him, that’s why I know precisely that He is alive, real, can feel and can speak!!